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14/02/2009, 5:57 PM CFrost Re: ASDA pulls out of Exmouth deal well i hope the small minded residents of this god forsaken heap are satisfied now.  We can look forward to having to queue up on salterton road to shop in our one and only 'supermarkt' for ever more and live with the decaying heap of *** on the estuary side and put up with the  inadequate sports centre for generations to come.  Perhaps someone could tell me exactly what the people of this town consider is a 21st centuary way to move forward because they have now seen off 2 super market proposals and all the benefits they would offer the town  what do people want here????

15/02/2009, 11:45 AM Alice Joined on 12/02/2009 Posts 48 Re: ASDA pulls out of Exmouth deal  King Ludd wrote: I wonder now if it might be possible to begin a genuine consultation in Exmouth - a thoroughgoing democratic questioning process involving everyone from the town. Not 'key stakeholders' and panels of assorted businessmen holding secret meetings without minutes in smoke-filled rooms. Us. Deciding our future together. Our elected representatives have show that they can't be trusted to manage an effective consultation. Perhaps we can find some way to organise one ourselves. One free from the taint of partiality. One which would come to conclusions about how we should proceed as a town - conclusions which might then be acted on with the approval of the entire community. This is really a very exciting time for Exmouth. We can take charge of our own destinies. We can decide how we want to proceed. This is our town and what we say, goes. This place, it's past and it's future, belong to all of us. It's not for sale to any corporation. This place and everything in it, the streets you walk down, the ground you stand on - all of it belongs to you. All you have to do is reach out your hand and take it. It's not EDDC's town. It's not Sarah Randall Johnson's county. It's not Hugo Swire's either. It belongs to us. We have to make sure that everyone remembers that. I hope we can be worthy of what we have inherited and I hope we can live up to the responsibilities we have to all the generations who will follow us. If we wanted to we could organise the best and most comprehensive consultation this county has ever seen. We could hammer out a way forward. A 5, 10, 15 and 25 year plan. One which was fiscally responsible. We could attract new sustainable business to Exmouth which would provide skilled remunerative labour. We could set up the town centre so that small businesses could thrive there and a diverse and unique shopping provision could be created. We could have a non-profit food co-operative selling inexpensive high quality locally sourced food. We need to start talking to each other and quickly before the council comes up with a plan to put a nuclear power station on the estuary. We need to find out definitively what the people of this town want Exmouth to look like We need what EDDC have never had: an authentic democratic mandate for the development of Exmouth. I just wanted an ASDA !!!     Report

15/02/2009, 11:05 PM King Ludd Joined on 20/12/2008 Posts 35 Re: ASDA pulls out of Exmouth deal .    Report

16/02/2009, 1:30 PM Ian Woolger Joined on 09/09/2008 Budleigh Salterton Posts 211 Re: ASDA pulls out of Exmouth deal It has been quite interesting to read the furore over the "Now Failed" Asda and the passions both Pro and Anti it has raised within the town. Being in the Pro camp, I along with my fellows have had to suffer much abuse and "name calling" from the Anti brigade for our stance on the issue, merely for expressing an opinion over our choice of shopping venue. The one thing I have tended to notice, is that many of your proposed alternatives are very good ideas, in a world unconnected from the rest of civilization, or the corporate systems which rule our lives. However in the real world, that being the one populated by people who work hard, long hours to earn basic wages and pay high costs to live, we do not have the pleasure of being as "choosy" over our suppliers of daily foods as some of those who do not have to work for a living and have the time to spend wandering aimlessly the streets for a bargain. Like it or not, we are all trapped and try as we might (should we choose to) our lives are tangled in the vast web that keeps us "toeing the line". It must be very nice, being some sort of anti corporation eco warrior and I would love to wear your cloak and carry your shield, but alas the mind numbing nitty gritty of earning a crust and paying for a roof over my head calls me. It would be superb, if we could "roll the clock back" to before the industrial revolution, to the joys of organic farming and horse drawn ploughs, to shops that sourced their produce locally, to farmers who knew where their produce was marketed. To trawlers that berthed at their home port and sold fish at their local market...Alas time marches on, not always in a way that makes life better, but inexorably it does march. Yourself and your compatriots in the "No Camp" have got what you want, sadly the fly in the ointment is money, as always, without it nothing gets done. It is, the root of all evil and unless our local council increase our council taxation by extortionate amounts and fund the things Exmouth needs, nothing will be done, without some commercial assistance and therefore someone "making a buck"! I am very happy to contribute my slice of taxation to fund many things, especially the care of the disabled and those unable to help themselves, but I certainly would not be happy for my taxes to be used to fund business ventures, to create your "shopping utopia" Sadly the good old "free market prevails" Oh that we could change it.... It is criminal to steal a purse, daring to steal a fortune, a mark of greatness to steal a crown. The blame diminishes as the guilt increases    Report

16/02/2009, 5:21 PM King Ludd Joined on 20/12/2008 Posts 35 Re: ASDA pulls out of Exmouth deal .    Report

16/02/2009, 5:36 PM CFrost Re: ASDA pulls out of Exmouth deal

16/02/2009, 6:43 PM King Ludd Joined on 20/12/2008 Posts 35 Re: ASDA pulls out of Exmouth deal is that all you've got? Is that it? What are you, a 15 year old girl with braces? 'I'm so, like, totally not impressed? I'm all like, whatevah?' 'Like zomg *yawn*, this is so totally not what I need right now?' 'Hey you guys, let's not read this devon forum anymore? let's totally put on our jim-jams and watch the friends box set and braid each others hair?'. If you've got something to say, say it. if not, do one.    Report

16/02/2009, 7:17 PM CFrost Re: ASDA pulls out of Exmouth deal And I will actually stand side by side with MR Ludd on that, the object of a forum is dialogue, maybe with some wit and sarcasm thrown in for good measure, sadly dialogue requires some measure of literacy which certainly involves more than stringing some abuse together. Ian

16/02/2009, 7:27 PM Ian Woolger Joined on 09/09/2008 Budleigh Salterton Posts 211 Re: ASDA pulls out of Exmouth deal  C-Frost wrote: And I will actually stand side by side with MR Ludd on that, the object of a forum is dialogue, maybe with some wit and sarcasm thrown in for good measure, sadly dialogue requires some measure of literacy which certainly involves more than stringing some abuse together. Ian Ooops sorry that was me, forgot to sign in ....MMMMMM! strange you appear to have gone under the knife Mr Ludd, I detect a disappearing post do I not? It is criminal to steal a purse, daring to steal a fortune, a mark of greatness to steal a crown. The blame diminishes as the guilt increases    Report

16/02/2009, 7:41 PM King Ludd Joined on 20/12/2008 Posts 35 Re: ASDA pulls out of Exmouth deal Hello Ian. Yeah, i disappeared it. The criticism was harsh but fair. ; ) I appreciate the solidarity though. I wouldn't mind so much but I burned a perfectly good pizza. Oh well. Sic Transit Gloria Monday.    Report

16/02/2009, 8:18 PM Alice Joined on 12/02/2009 Posts 48 Re: ASDA pulls out of Exmouth deal  King Ludd wrote: Well, thank your lucky stars for the financial accident which saved you from yourself. The one thing that came out of all this for me is how easy it is to make people believe lies and damned lies. The adherents of the regeneration cult are signed up to a faith. The regeneration evangelists came here to turn Exmouth into Jonestown. And the gullible people of the town were soon singing their tune and toasting their good luck with Kool Aid. No matter how ludicrous and counterintuitive the claim (Asda's create jobs - Asda's promote choice, Asda's are cheap) the cult members believed. Because the regeneration cult is not about making sense. It's about blind faith. There is no actual evidence for any of the claims of the pro-Asda people. No argument that a 5 year old couldn't see through in 10 seconds was ever advanced at any stage for any of the outlandish claims. Why bother? Because justification is unnecessary to members of the one true church. You may as well ask for proof that Jesus walked on water, or that Moses parted the Red Sea. And now, when the whole vile profiteering scheme hits the buffers all you get from the cult members is acrimonious caviling and bitching. 'Oh it's the ECF' 'The old fogeys' 'They're living in the past' and so on and so on until you feel like you're going to blow chunks out of your own nose it makes you so sick at heart. The people of this town should thank their lucky stars that there's people who care about this place enough to get off their a***s for a cause more noble than the pursuit of the cheapest chicken kiev. But what do you give those people? Grief is what you give them. Insults. You should be ashamed. They're the best of the lot of you. And anyway - it wasn't them who stopped this Asda. I'm sure any of us might like to take the credit but we can't. The people who run this place and who run American corporations don't give a damn about what we or anyone else thinks. The Asda plan was born out of the desire for money and it died because of the lack of it. People, whether pro or against, were never here nor there. Reading the comments on the Express and Echo site and some of the comments here I almost wish you'd got the Asda. There are people in this town so endlessly credulous that they deserve to get taken. I only wish there was a way for them to all end up in the brown stuff without taking the rest of us down too. I am not in the slightest bit gullible, King Ludd. and I don't need 'saving from myself ' Would you mind telling me what is 'ludicrous' about the claim that ASDA 'are cheap' ? Whether you like it or not, that is fact. Maybe you should rant on with total nonsence a little less and try putting together a decent 'anti-ASDA' argument that I can read without being insulted?    Report

16/02/2009, 9:50 PM King Ludd Joined on 20/12/2008 Posts 35 Re: ASDA pulls out of Exmouth deal .    Report

16/02/2009, 10:43 PM Alice Joined on 12/02/2009 Posts 48 Re: ASDA pulls out of Exmouth deal Since when did I claim to believe that Asda came here to 'regenerate Exmouth' ? Since when did I act like I believed Asda 'helped old ladies accross the road' ?  I didn't. Saying things like that just makes me lose all respect/interest in anything you have to say.  Maybe we should clear something else up here, I am not stupid. I have studied environmental science at degree level, I do not need lectures about pollution. Thanks anyway. I am also aware of how to find anti-asda arguments without you needing to point me in the direction of google or youtube. There are many many people in Exmouth who work for the minimum wage and who claim benefits. There are also people who do not work at all and claim benefits. Your point about people who work in Asda needing to claim benefits is irrelevant. I could argue all night about the pros and cons of asda but I now realize you are the virtual equivalent of someone who loves nothing more than the sound of there own voice, you admit you aim to insult and to be perfectly honest you bore me. I would rather go find someone to have an intelligent conversation face to face with rather than give you any excuse to spout this utter rubbish in response to anything I say.    Report

17/02/2009, 8:50 AM CFrost Re: ASDA pulls out of Exmouth deal  King Ludd wrote: "Maybe you should rant on with total nonsence a little less and try putting together a decent 'anti-ASDA' argument that I can read without being insulted?" If you don't feel insulted you weren't reading what I wrote accurately, so I'm glad we've at least got that far. There are lots of anti-Asda arguments. Type in 'Mouth Of The Exe' on Google and you'll find pages of them. Go and watch 'Walmart:The High Cost Of Low Prices' on Youtube. This is a discussion which has been going on for a long time. When I say it' a discussion that may be to dignify it somewhat. What has actually happened is that the people who thought Asda was not a panacea for all the ills of Exmouth have explained over and over again why all the claims for regneration were unconvincing and the pro-Asda people have come back at them with more statements, totally unsubstantiated, about how 'it's the future' and 'Exmouth needs to move with the times'. You are extremely gullible if you think Asda came here to regenerate Exmouth. Asda, it may shock you to know, is not a philanthropic organisation. They didn't make all that lovely lucre by helping old ladies across the road. Asda is a business. You may subscribe to the idea that all of this was some kind of quid pro quo arrangement - that the Asda deal was something that was going to be mutually beneficial for them and the town. If you believe that one then you are the more dangerous kind of true believer - the kind who believes in trickle-down economics and compassionate conservativism and that capitalism can keep expanding forever into new markets and creating jobs and everyone will benefit from it. Win-win and all of that stuff. All the nebulous cost-benefit analysis statistics that go with regeneration have no actual basis in fact but at least they purport to be believable. The idea that capitalism benefits everyone is one Goebbels would have approved of: if you're going to tell a lie tell a really big one. The claim that Asda is cheap is absolutely ludicrous. Asda isn't cheap for many reasons. One of the most obvious reasons is that Asda creates huge amounts of pollution by moving food over long distances, like other supermarkets. This level of pollution is unsustainable in the long term. In the future it will lead to catastrophic climate change and the forced relocation of millions of people at a cost which will have to be born by you and me - or at least by our children. Asda won't be held to account for the effects of the pollution they are currently creating. They are creating a debt which future generations will have to pay. The true cost of their business is hidden. The other reason, which is more pertinent to the present, is that Asda externalises costs. The reason your food is so cheap at Asda is because you are subsidising Asda's employment bill. Notwithstanding the fact that Walmart are a giant corporation with profits in the billions, yet Asda only pay just above minimum wage, which is not enough for someone in Exmouth to buy a house and have kids without some kind of state subsidy. People who work there will in many cases need constant benefits from the state to keep them afloat. I worked out an Asda employing 350 people may cost as much as 4 million pounds a year to keep open. 100 pounds for every man woman and child in Exmouth. The average family would subsidise them to the tune of 400 pounds a year. And then those families go in and, when they get 10p off a carton of persil they grovel on the floor in gratitude. That money you pay Asda in externalised costs could have gone to schools and hospitals. It could've gone to all sorts of worthy important causes. But it gets siphoned off and sent to America. It's a scandal. But everyone says that Asda is cheap and they need it because they're a working family on hard times. They must laugh at us mustn't they? We're so easy to deceive. They take 400 quid out of our paycheck in taxes and we just say 'oh well it's income tax, it's the government, what can you do?' Then they give us two for one on packets of Weetabix and we all cheer. So, it's not 'fact' that Asda are cheap. The only thing supermarkets are economical with is the truth.

17/02/2009, 1:00 PM Old Boy Joined on 24/12/2008 Posts 28 Re: ASDA pulls out of Exmouth deal Alice I absolutely agree with you !     Report

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