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20/01/2010, 1:33 PM Ian Woolger Joined on 09/09/2008 Budleigh Salterton Posts 211 What if I was wearing a Burka??????/Shopping at Spar As a Budleigh resident of some 28 years, I have used most of the shops in the high street at some time or another. Probably the Spar and the Co op the most. I have ridden a motorcycle for 30 years and sadly due to the laws and safety considerations I have always worn a crash helmet. On hundreds of occasions I have stopped in town to make an "impulse buy" and parked outside a shop on my motorcycle then popped in picked up and paid. Without removing my helmet or my biking gear. Not once in 30 years of motorcycling have I ever experienced the reaction I received in Budleigh Spar last night! I pulled up outside and popped in to buy some biscuits and chocolate, not a marathon shop, but an "impulse buy". On entering the shop, the two young male assistants were loitering behind the counter and I grabbed a basket and said "evening" as I entered. Grabbed my choccy and nibbles the went back to the counter to pay. (Wallet open, card ready) The shop assistant looked me up and down, then in the most supercilious tone stated "Do you always wear your crash helmet"!! It wasn't the fact he asked, it was more the way he asked, however I replied "yes as a matter of fact I do!" especially if I am just popping in quickly. He retorted "well next time you come in you will have to take it off!" It's the managers rules.... At this point I was just hitting the red mist moment and I retorted, "why would that be?" "It's common courtesy"he replied...and "it's a matter of security"...."Why, are you saying I am a criminal" I asked. "No he replied". Therefore I replied, "If I was going to rob the place, I would have stuck a twelve bore in your face and demanded you empty the till", why does the fact I am wearing motorcycle safety equipment affect your security? I then asked him what he would do if a Muslim woman wearing a Burka came into the shop! What would his managers rules say then? He failed to provide me with an answer. So I left and informed him not to worry about his security or my headgear, as I would happily spend my money elsewhere in the town........ I know this may seem petty, but this is the thin end of the wedge as to how we are all treated and it is where discrimination is bred from! If I was black and hanging with gold jewelery would he refuse to serve me in case I was a gangster? If I was towing a caravan with my tarmacking van would he refuse to serve me because I might be a traveler? Of course not, but because we all must be treated as possible thieves, con men and rogues, big brother needs our pictures somewhere on their database and shop assistants and shop managers feel the need to discriminate against people. I needless to say wont be going into Spar again, I can live without their service, they undoubtedly don't need my custom as I might be a robber. So if anyone is thinking of carrying out a robbery at the Spar, wear a three piece suit and tie. Because its only people with crash helmets that rob shops!!!! It is criminal to steal a purse, daring to steal a fortune, a mark of greatness to steal a crown. The blame diminishes as the guilt increases    Report

20/01/2010, 2:22 PM Mike Fairclough Joined on 18/04/2008 Posts 115 Re: What if I was wearing a Burka??????/Shopping at Spar interesting tale Ian .... is this the first time you've felt victimized?  How do you now feel about some of the statements you've made re. our security in the past? ie we elect people, so leave decisions to them ... Do you think that i.d cards are/would be a good thing? What about the feelings of the burkha wearers ... do you now have sympathy with them? ... just thought I'd ask, Mike    Report

20/01/2010, 2:39 PM Seadog Joined on 05/03/2007 Posts 605 Re: What if I was wearing a Burka??????/Shopping at Spar  Ian Woolger wrote: ........... I have ridden a motorcycle for 30 years and sadly due to the laws and safety considerations I have always worn a crash helmet............. Why 'sadly' ? What's wrong with wearing a crash helmet when riding a motorcycle?    Report

20/01/2010, 3:11 PM Ian Woolger Joined on 09/09/2008 Budleigh Salterton Posts 211 Re: What if I was wearing a Burka??????/Shopping at Spar "Sadly" because, I am of the age that I feel I do not require "Laws" to assist me in becoming a safer person...I am quite able to make the choice by myself to wear a helmet, which I would do. I do not require stupid politicians to make my life choices for me. It is criminal to steal a purse, daring to steal a fortune, a mark of greatness to steal a crown. The blame diminishes as the guilt increases    Report

20/01/2010, 3:56 PM fibresand Joined on 07/05/2009 Posts 73 Re: What if I was wearing a Burka??????/Shopping at Spar Ian,   we usually see eye to eye on a variety of issues, however, on this occasion I do have to differ somewhat. I do agree that the manner in which you were spoken to does seem a little officious,--------- however, due to quite understandable " stereotyping" , whereby lots of shops around the country are held up by violent thugs wearing crash helmets late at night, leaving innocent staff traumatised, I can see the reasoning behind the management of Spar taking such a line. We are all guilty of stereotyping, indeed it's quite natural----------ie,  the skinny kid wearing a hoodie is definitely a "degenerate",  up to no good, --------( he might infact be a trainee lawyer,  or medical student), ---ie, the black man dripping with gold is probably a drug dealing gangster-----( he might infact be a footballer, or successful musician )-etc etc So don't take it personally my friend, and try to understand the reasoning behind Spar's rules-------the rules  ain't aimed to attack you, they are only aimed at protecting the safety their late-night staff. Here endeth the lesson !---------cheers David    Report

20/01/2010, 4:25 PM Watchdog Joined on 07/11/2008 Posts 95 Re: What if I was wearing a Burka??????/Shopping at Spar I have to agree with Fibresand on this one. The youngsters who work in these stores which open later into the evening must always be on the guard. I think the point you make about people from other countries and headgear may be valid, and perhaps they should adhere to our ways etc and should not be treated differently, but I can see no logical reason for not removing your helmet. I do not think the argument is about your right to wear a helmet, it's more about common sense. While I tend to agree with most of your postings, sorry, Ian, we will have to agree to disagree on this one.    Report

20/01/2010, 8:03 PM Ian Woolger Joined on 09/09/2008 Budleigh Salterton Posts 211 Re: What if I was wearing a Burka??????/Shopping at Spar  Evening Mike, nice to see you back on the Forum, my reply as follows: "Interesting tale Ian .... is this the first time you've felt victimized?" Actually mike, it isn't, especially for being a "motorcyclist".I could recount several occasions when I have walked into a bar or a cafe in motorcycle kit and been refused service. On one occasion many years ago, I turned up at the then "Deer Leap" and walked in with my biking kit on, to be greeted with a "We don't serve your sort here"!  I left the young lady I was with and returned home, put on a dinner suit and bow tie, then returned to the Deer Leap, leaving skid lid outside chained to bike, I walked in and went to the bar, ordered a massive round of about a dozen drinks, then when requested to pay, I informed the manager that there was obviously a mistake as he couldn't serve me! I then explained I was the same person that his staff had refused service to an hour ago and if I couldn't be served then because I was a "Motorcyclist"...I was "still a motorcyclist". I left and never drank in there again. I have felt victimized as a cyclist, by other road users, I have felt victimized as a "fat" person by thin people, we all are victimized in some way. I just hate people who invent "rules" to victimize people by.  "How do you now feel about some of the statements you've made re. our security in the past? ie we elect people, so leave decisions to them ... " Indeed we do elect people and we should leave the decisions up to them, however what we should never do is "cease to hold an opinion". Just because we have voted for a particular party and given them a mandate to act on our behalf, we should still exercise the right to let them know we disagree with their decision, and then by voting against them in the next election, should they fail to respect the view of the majority of their voters. I did not vote for Labour in any of the previous elections, I did not give them a mandate to ruin the country, Labour voters however DID, therefore it is on their shoulders that our current situation rests. Let us see to whom they transfer their allegiance in the next election. It must be nice to be a Labour voter and know that you have the blood of Iraqi civilians, Afghan civilians and our Troops on your hands. That said, Cameron cannot walk away without some blood on his conscience as he fully supported Bliar in his Iraq campaign, leaving us as a country, less secure and more prone to retaliation than ever before. An ideal position for Labour to instil a greater fear in the populace, on the back of which to bring in more draconian laws under the guise of "protecting us from terrorism". "Do you think that i.d cards are/would be a good thing? " Absolutely NOT, they are yet another "Crock" from a Socialist government hell bent on an "Orwellian Superstate" where no question of authority would be allowed. If I wanted to live in East Germany, I would have moved there. Criminals and terrorists currently commit illegal acts with impunity, yet we have the most CCTV in the world (even more than North Korea), we have more rules, regulations and immigration controls than you could throw a bent stick at, yet they still carry on. ID cards will be forged by professional criminals in the same way as visas, passports and credit cards are now and ordinary law abiding citizens will have the burden of proving their identity to all and sundry at the "flash of a card" "What about the feelings of the burkha wearers ... do you now have sympathy with them? ... just thought I'd ask". Actually Mike, I DO have sympathy with wearers of the "Burka" and the "Hijab", although I would say, provided that they wear them of their own free will and  as part of their faith, to abide by the principles of modesty laid down by Islam.  I do not support their wear as a method of the oppression of women, or under threat or force. Religion and the adherence to religious rules and customs should be up to the free will of the individual who follows its path. Those who seek to pervert religion and "impose" its will on others, are as bad as dictators and despots who seek to manipulate those under their thrall, these people prevent moderate law abiding people from living a normal and harmonious life, by promoting racial hatred and causing tension between communities. I personally am not a fan of "multiculturalism", it is a bit like the EU, a great sounding idea, that will never work in practice. However I am a great fan of treating everyone equal, until they prove unworthy of that treatment. Sometimes it takes a great deal of trust, which is not always repaid, but I think in the main, the vast majority of the human race, would actually get on with each other, if it wasn't for governments, religious leaders and multi national corporations. It really is time that we all became "Citizens of Earth" and threw aside our petty squabbles and "power-plays" for the sake of everyone. But that would be utopia, so for the time being, I will continue writing letters to the paper and we will all carry on like the bunch of "Victor Meldrews" that we are. Ian It is criminal to steal a purse, daring to steal a fortune, a mark of greatness to steal a crown. The blame diminishes as the guilt increases    Report

23/01/2010, 12:00 PM Local Yocal Joined on 01/04/2008 Devon Posts 172 Re: What if I was wearing a Burka??????/Shopping at Spar Do you leave your crash helmet on when standing at the counter in the Bank?      Report

24/01/2010, 2:31 PM Ian Woolger Joined on 09/09/2008 Budleigh Salterton Posts 211 Re: What if I was wearing a Burka??????/Shopping at Spar The joys of online banking! It is criminal to steal a purse, daring to steal a fortune, a mark of greatness to steal a crown. The blame diminishes as the guilt increases    Report

25/01/2010, 11:12 AM Local Yocal Joined on 01/04/2008 Devon Posts 172 Re: What if I was wearing a Burka??????/Shopping at Spar ..... dfficult to see the screen through goggles - surely?    Report

27/01/2010, 10:36 PM Seadog Joined on 05/03/2007 Posts 605 Re: What if I was wearing a Burka??????/Shopping at Spar What are all these reports about an armed robbery at Tesco in Exmouth? Has that Ian Woolger been shopping in his crash helmet again?    Report

27/01/2010, 10:44 PM Ian Woolger Joined on 09/09/2008 Budleigh Salterton Posts 211 Re: What if I was wearing a Burka??????/Shopping at Spar I gather the toerag got away with £300, 10 years inside for armed robbery isn't going to be exactly value for money is it. Didn't hear whether he had a crash helmet on though.Perhaps he was disguised as a normal member of the public. I was sat at a friends listening to the Police chopper searching over the docks and seafront. I gather they got him, now I am sure the judiciary will deal with him in a manner that befits his crime.IE 20 hours community service and £50 out of the poor box.If he is lucky he might even get an ASBO! It is criminal to steal a purse, daring to steal a fortune, a mark of greatness to steal a crown. The blame diminishes as the guilt increases    Report

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